Aston Villa meet for talks with McLeish

• Villa hold meeting with McLeish as row over manager escalates
• Birmingham angry over 'contempt of Premier League rules'

Aston Villa have held talks with managerial target Alex McLeish at a secret location in London today, as their bitter battle with the Scot's former club Birmingham continued.

City are understood to be talking to their lawyers to decide what course of action to pursue against Villa, with McLeish having resigned from his post on Sunday before opening talks with their rivals.

Villa remain confident McLeish will still become Gerard Houllier's successor – despite the growing protests from sections of their fans – and he could be unveiled before the weekend.

But Birmingham have announced their intention to lodge a complaint with the Premier League, accusing Villa of "tapping up" McLeish. Villa believe McLeish is a free agent, but Birmingham are seeking £5.4m in compensation to cover the remaining two years of his contract, and have yet formally to accept his resignation.

In addition Villa may have to compensate Birmingham should McLeish's backroom team of coaches Peter Grant as well as Andy Watson and Dave Watson follow him from St Andrew's.

The Villa owner Randy Lerner believes McLeish is the right man to revive the club's fortunes despite the backlash from supporters. A protest has been planned at Villa Park, while a spray-painted message reading "Bluenose scum not welcome" was quickly removed from the wall outside the club's Bodymoor Heath training ground.

Alan Curbishley, who was playing for Birmingham when Ron Saunders moved from Villa nearly 30 years ago, is not surprised that feelings are running high.

He told Sky: "When Ron went from Villa to Birmingham there was uproar. I can understand the furore that is going to happen if Alex McLeish goes to Villa.

"I think people outside the city of Birmingham don't understand the rivalry between the two clubs. It is massive. Perhaps Alex, if he does go to Villa, has not thought that bit out and it is a big situation he is going into. If it does happen, there will be some tricky times ahead."

Alex McLeishAston VillaBirmingham Cityguardian.co.uk

The Fiver | Named and shamed as second choice to manage Cardiff … behind Alan Shearer | Barry Glendenning

Click here to have the Fiver sent to your inbox every weekday at 5pm, or if your usual copy has stopped arriving

CHAMPIONSHIP MANAGER

Not content with boasting a name that makes him seem more Scottish than the red-headed alcoholic kilt-wearing school caretaker from The Simpsons deep-frying haggis to the soundtrack of Sweet Flower of Scotland being played on the bagpipes, Watford manager Malky Mackay has a new claim to fame. For his tenacious work pulling the Championship side's strings over the past two years, the 39-year-old has been "rewarded" with being publicly named and shamed as second choice to manage Cardiff City football club … behind Alan Shearer.

Oh Malky.

When it emerged yesterday that the Bluebirds' preferred candidate to succeed Dave Jones was a man whose only managerial experience to date yielded one victory in eight games and ended in Newcastle's relegation to the Championship, the mood nationwide was one of widespread optimism, except amongst Cardiff City fans. The reason? If Shearer was scanning the home dressing-room in the Cardiff City Stadium, looking at assorted exotic foreigners like Gabor Gyepes, Stephen McPhail and Kevin McNaughton, lads about whom "we obviously divvent knaa much", then it meant he would no longer be on the Match of the Day sofa, wearing shiny tight trousers, belittling his fellow pundits for actually knowing the names of Slovakians and offering the kind of stunning tactical insights - "the lad'll be disappointed with that" - for which his name has long been a byword.

"I can confirm that I wez one o the candidates tha the club spoke te aboot the vacant manager's position at Cardiff City," mumbled a statement issued by Shearer. "During these talks ah wez myest impressed wi the vision, ambition an determination o the owner Dato Chan Tien Ghee an the board," it continued, presumably on the grounds that those mentioned managed to stay awake while engaged in talks with Shearer. "Unfortunately those talks were unsuccessful on this occasion. Cardiff City is a geet club an Ah wish them every success next season."

So there you have it, viewing figures for Goals on Sunday with Kammy and TV's Ben Shephard will continue to climb steadily next season, because Shearer turned Cardiff City down. It's a state of affairs so embarrassing for the Welsh club that it makes Roberto Martinez snubbing Aston Villa seem comparatively stalkerish.

Speaking of Villa, the Midlands club shipped another dent today, when it emerged that Birmingham City are set to run to the Premier League and grass on them for tapping up manager Alex "Big Eck" McLeish. Villa have denied making an illegal approach for the Scot, claiming they are clear to speak to him because he resigned from his job at Birmingham. "The club understands that Alex McLeish is a free agent," droned a Villa statement. If the reaction of their supporters to Big Eck's mooted appointment is anything to go by, he may very well remain one.

QUOTE OF THE DAY

"I have always acted with discretion" - in insisting that he will not press for a summer move to Barcelona, Cesc Fabregas seems to forget posting a picture of himself enjoying the Spanish GP recently, while Arsenal were still playing their last match of the season.

NAME THAT TOON

1 June: "To be captain of this club, it really feels a great honour. It's fantastic and I am absolutely delighted. Genuinely from the bottom of my heart, I love doing the captaincy bit and I love playing for this club" - Newcastle skipper Kevin Nolan pledges his future to the club.

15 June: Undergoes medical at newly-relegated West Ham. Prompts Joey Barton to tweet: "Devastated to see him SOLD #mejoseandjonasnext."

DOUBLE YOUR MONEY WITH BLUE SQUARE!

Open an account with online bookies Blue Square, placing a bet of at least £5 and they'll give you a free £10 bet, win or lose! (Terms Apply) Register now.

FIVER LETTERS

"If Alex McLeish is the worst Birmingham City manager in Tony Parker's memory (yesterday's Fiver letters), in what order would he rank the others who failed to win a single trophy between them from 1963 to 2011?" - Steve Wheatley.

"Re: James O'Connor (yesterday's letters) suggesting Liverpool fans have become desperate, guiding us to a link that is a pedant's dream. The website boldly proclaims: 'Here are the FACTS (facts plural you'll notice - indicating more than one, although giving only one): Liverpool have won more trophies than ANYONE!' I'll let everyone else pick apart the rest" - Neil Thompson.

"I have taken the liberty of being pedantic and added all the cups and leagues won by Liverpool and Manchester United and the T-shirt should actually read: 1st Division Champions (18) + 2nd Division Champions (4) + Lancashire League (1) + FA Cup (7) + League Cup (7) + FA Charity/Community Shield (15) + Super Cup (1) + Big Cup (5) + Euro Vase (3) + Uefa Super Cup (3) (64 total) > 1st Division/EPL (19) + 2nd Division (2) + FA Cup (11) + League Cup (4) + FA Charity/Community Shield (18) + Big Cup (3) + Cup Winners' Cup (1) + Uefa Super Cup (1) + Intercontinental Cup (1) + Fifa Club World Cup (1) (61 total). Using such a system would mean that one values the winning of the Lancashire League to be comparable to winning something as prestigious and distinguished as the Club World Cup that is respected worldwide and organised by an institution that is whiter than white. Oh" - Matt Page.

"Re: CL Barnes (yesterday's letters). How do you know if someone owns an iPad? They tell you" - Will Cook (and others).

Send your letters to the.boss@guardian.co.uk. And if you've nothing better to do you can also tweet the Fiver.

BITS AND BOBS

Former Terek Grozny manager Ruud Gullit claims he can't understand why he was given the boot by club president and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov. "This is all such a crazy story," he chimed. "I really have to laugh. I knew this was no ordinary country and no ordinary football league. But it's all been too bizarre for words. First the president threatens me, then we lose by a last-minute own goal and then I find out from Holland that I'm fired. What can I do other than see the humour in it all?"

Former Argentina boss Marcelo Bielsa has been contacted about potentially replacing Leonardo as Inter coach.

Sunderland chairman Niall Quinn insists talk of the club putting Asamoah Gyan up for sale is nonsense. "The suggestion that we have spoken to an agent to sell this player on our behalf is embarrassing to all concerned," he chirped.

And the Romanian Football Federation have appointed Victor Piturca as national boss for a third time.

GUARDIAN READER OFFER

Sign up to Sky TV with an HD pack, broadband and calls, and get a free Sky+ HD box worth £49, a free standard set-up worth £30 and a £50 Marks and Spencer voucher when you sign up online. Only £29.75 a month (includes HD pack). Add Sky Sports for only £20.25 extra per month.

STILL WANT MORE?

Join Jacob Steinberg from 7.45pm for live MBM coverage of England Under-21s 1-1 Ukraine Under-21s.

What is the shortest time between two penalties being awarded? The Knowledge has the answer.

Alex McLeish fits the bill for a club with lowered expectations like Aston Villa, reckons Paul Wilson.

Bored at work? Obviously. Then let the greatest internet sports games ever ease your pain.

SIGN UP TO THE FIVER

Want your very own copy of our free tea-timely(ish) email sent direct to your inbox? Has your regular copy stopped arriving? Click here to sign up.

IF YOU REALLY MUST HAVE AN APP, GET THE 'ST AUSTELL BREWERY IN MY POCKET' ONEBarry Glendenningguardian.co.uk

Author, author: Anthony Clavane on Leeds and literary iconoclasts

'Leeds revels in its image as a grim, sullen, anti-intellectual, no-frills, proudly independent, dark and gritty city'

Last meal together, Leeds, the Queen's Hotel,

that grandish pile of swank in City Square.

Too posh for me! he said (though he dressed well)

If you weren't wi' me now ah'd nivver dare!

"The Queen's English" by Tony Harrison

Every few months or so, David Peace and I meet at that grandish pile of swank, made even grander during the city's rebirth as a shiny shoppers' paradise. The man who invented a new genre of fiction – "Yorkshire noir" – is back in town. After his decade-long exile in Japan, the prodigal son has returned, like Ed Dunford in his first novel, 1974, to find that things have changed. Once the region's boomtown, Leeds is now a synonym for the fall. Outside the hotel, there are holes in the ground. New buildings have been mothballed. Thousands of new flats lie empty. The cuts are in place; the harrowing of the north is upon us. "The darkness," Peace notes, "is back."

But, whisper it softly (whispering it softly is very much the Leeds thing), while he was away there has been something of a literary renaissance. A new generation of edgy provincials is about to storm the citadels of London, throwing itself about town and flaunting its talent. Or at least it would be if it could be bothered to get on the train. For it appears to be afflicted by Billy Liar Syndrome; in Keith Waterhouse's classic tale, William Terence Fisher bottles it when his freewheeling girlfriend offers him the chance of a swinging time in the Big Smoke. Getting on the train is, of course, a metaphor for aspiration.

The words "Leeds" and "literary" are rarely, if ever, used in the same sentence. As a Harry Enfield character once mocked: "Don't talk to me about sophistication – I've been to Leeds." And yet, in the 60s, that golden age of aspiration, Waterhouse was part of a crack force of prickly outsiders who barged through the privileged ranks of the elite.

A disproportionate number of these iconoclasts were from Leeds and its surrounds: Waterhouse, Alan Bennett, Tony Harrison, Willis Hall, David Storey, John Braine, Stan Barstow . . . throw in Jack Higgins and Barbara Taylor Bradford (and, at a stretch, Barry Cryer, who formed an unlikely comedy duo with Harrison) and you have the Leeds Movement.

Never heard of it? That could be because, unlike the Merseybeat Poets or the Madchester Sound, it was never officially acknowledged. "It's something to do with a lack of self-identity," Peace explains. "It's the same with music. Manchester and Liverpool have clearly defined music scenes. But while Leeds has had great bands, it has never really had a scene."

This anonymity is all part of the charm. On my last visit to Elland Road, Leeds United's football ground, I bumped into Bernard Hare, whose disturbing memoir Urban Grimshaw and the Shed Crew, about underclass kids growing up in east Leeds during the 1990s, was hailed as an instant classic. "I've become a recluse," he smiled, anticipating the haven't-seen-you-in-yonks question. "Leeds has hugely influenced writing and thought," argues Mick McCann in How Leeds Changed the World. "It's just that no one seems to know it. It's part of our Leedsness not to blow our own trumpet. To keep our feet on the ground, to not show off, to never get ideas above our station."

This is only part of the story. Personally, I think Dickens's "beastly place" – much to the horror of its civic boosterists – revels in its image as a grim, sullen, down-to-earth, anti-intellectual, proudly independent, no-frills, dark and gritty city. Peace's characters in his astonishing Red Riding quartet frequently toast each other with the words: "To the north, where we do what we want!"

The new wave of West Riding iconoclasts – Peace, McCann, Caryl Phillips, Kester Aspden, Dave Simpson, Alice Nutter, Boff Whalley, Ian Duhig, Wes Brown, Tom Palmer, Robert Endeacott and John Anthony Lake – do what they want. I interviewed some of them for my book Promised Land, a cultural history of Leeds United, and they all made it clear they wouldn't want to belong to a movement. This, I suppose, is what makes them iconoclasts. Like the Waterhouse generation, they write about escaping a life of provincial confinement. Some have escaped – but they all seem to return, in their writing at least, to the dirt and the darkness. Brown's Shark depicts an underclass struggling to belong, grafting for its patch. Aspden, Phillips and Duhig have all written movingly about the murder of rough sleeper David Oluwale, one of the most notorious racist crimes in British history. "I think that darkness comes from growing up in West Yorkshire in the 1970s," Peace says. "It was a dark time: not just the Ripper, police corruption and miscarriages of justice, but economically and politically."

As the city braces itself for another big hit, a harrowing that will put Thatcher's assault in the shade, he finds it reassuring to meet up for the occasional cuppa in the Queen's Hotel, the art-deco meeting place of his heroes, the old Leeds literati. Bennett, Storey, Harrison and Waterhouse all used to stay there before boarding the train to London. "When I was growing up, I would come into Leeds every two weeks or so with my mum and dad. They would go shopping and then to the Queen's for a cup of tea, pretending to be posh."

I, too, can remember special trips there as a boy. My dad would delight in telling me that the hotel was white underneath its filthy, blackened coating. When he worked there, as a clerk, he used to leave through the side entrance leading directly into the station. There was a sign that bore the legend: "Leeds, The Promised Land Delivered". The sign was taken down sometime in the mid-80s.

Promised Land has been named 2011 Sports Book of the Year.

Leeds UnitedDavid Peaceguardian.co.uk

Rodríguez keen on return to Argentina

• 30-year-old confirms approach from Newell's Old Boys
• Rodríguez: 'The president called me and I said yes'

Maxi Rodríguez could join the proposed exodus from Liverpool's midfield this summer after revealing a desire to return to Argentina with Newell's Old Boys.

The 30-year-old came through the youth system at Newell's Old Boys and played three seasons for the club before leaving for Espanyol in 2002.

He enjoyed a fine end to the season at Liverpool, scoring seven goals in three matches, including two hat-tricks, and still has 18 months remaining on the three-year contract he signed on arrival from Atlético Madrid in January 2010.

However, he has confirmed an approach from his boyhood club and may ask to be released from his Anfield contract if a compromise package can be agreed.

Rodríguez told the Argentinian newspaper La Capital: "When I left here, I knew I was coming back. The president [Guillermo Lorente] called me and I said yes. Now it depends on the contract I have in Liverpool, maybe that can be loosened a little."

Kenny Dalglish found Rodríguez an important utility player towards the end of last season but with the Liverpool manager intending to overhaul his midfield with younger talent, and struggling to get several unwanted high-earners off the wage bill – such as Alberto Aquilani, Joe Cole and Christian Poulsen – an offer from Newell's Old Boys is likely to be considered. But the Argentina international would have to accept a significant reduction in his salary for the deal to happen.

Another surprise departure could be Raul Meireles, who reports in Italy have claimed is a target for Internazionale one year after his £11.7m arrival from Porto. The Portugal international enjoyed a promising debut season in English football, particularly in the month after Dalglish replaced Roy Hodgson as manager, but was not always deployed in his favoured central midfield role and would provide Liverpool with a quick return on their investment.

The Anfield club are expected to follow the £20m capture of Jordan Henderson with the signing of Charlie Adam from Blackpool, possibly this week, although the two clubs have yet to agree a fee for the Scotland international midfielder. A deal may include Jonjo Shelvey joining Blackpool on loan in a bid to gain more first-team experience.

LiverpoolTransfer windowAndy Hunterguardian.co.uk

The Knowledge | The shortest time between two penalties

Plus: Players playing the most consecutive minutes; Stephen Pound MP and the parliamentary Fulham XI; and Nobel Prize winners representing their countries. Send your questions and answers to knowledge@guardian.co.uk and follow us on Twitter

"When a penalty kick is saved and the ball rebounds off the goalkeeper and back into play there is often something of a stramash in the penalty area, and yet despite the melee I don't think I've ever seen a referee immediately award another penalty as a result of further foul play," wrote James Crane a few weeks ago. "I'm assuming this must have happened at some stage, therefore I would ask what is the shortest time between a referee awarding two penalties in this circumstance?"

First here's Claudio Kristeller: "In a match between Palmeiras and Avaí in last year's Brazilian Championship, Palmeiras shot a penalty, the keeper saved it, but the ref saw a foul in the fight for the rebound and awarded another penalty. It took about seven seconds from the first kick to the whistle (about five minutes in):

But this year Athletic Bilbao and Malaga were even quicker off the mark, writes Claudio Gameiro. Again the penalty incidents are around five minutes in:

Less than two seconds after Bilbao smacked the first kick against the bar, Malaga conceded another. Seen two penalties in a shorter space of time? Let us know at the usual address.

ON AND ON AND ON AND ON

"Having read that Martin Skrtel and Leighton Baines played every minute of the Premier League season, I wondered which player has played the most consecutive minutes over more than one season," writes Peter Ungphakorn.

Two chief contenders here – Harold Bell and Sepp Maier. Bell holds the British record for most consecutive appearances – 401 between 1946 and 1955. Substitutions were not introduced until 1965, so it is possible that Bell played 36,090 consecutive minutes.

Similarly, Maier made 442 consecutive appearances for Bayern Munich between 1966 and 1979 – a grand total of 39,780 uninterrupted minutes.

FOOTBALLERS MENTIONED IN PARLIAMENT (2)

Last week we looked at the footballers who have been namechecked in the House of Lords, with Michael Howard's 1994 World Cup optimism and John Wells' 1984 assertion that Glenn Hoddle and Bryan Robson should be the British leaders in the event of an apocalypse particular favourites. But in terms of sheer numbers and, it seems, premeditated action, Stephen Pound deserves special mention. The MP for Ealing North managed to shoehorn an entire Fulham first XI (and a couple of subs) into a debate on the Planning and Energy Bill in May 2008:

"I thank my hon. Friend for the positive way in which he is approaching this excellent Bill. New clause 1 would introduce a requirement to exceed building regulations – a Merton plus, plus model. In view of the work done by experts such as McBride and Healey, is it not the case that the building regulations will always be exceeded, regardless of what they are?"

"My hon. Friend underlines in many ways the importance of this Bill promoted by the hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Mr. Fallon). However, I am concerned about whether there is a lacuna in the area of education. I think of my constituent, Mr. Simon Davies, who told me about the house built in south Wales by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews), which is known as the "Teletubbies house" and is built almost entirely underground and covered with what he calls organic insulation and the rest of us call grass."

"My hon. Friend refers principally to thermal insulation, but he is on to something quite important with regard to sound attenuation. On the point about the amount of development in inner-London constituencies, in my area, even where there are cellars – or Kasey Kellers as people call them locally – people have tried to build there. Given his discussions with the Thermal Insulation Manufacturers and Suppliers Association, was he aware of any part of its remit that includes the benign combination of thermal and sound insulation in the same material?"

"I do not think that there will be many arguments in the House today except on points of detail. My hon. Friend referred to forward-thinking local authorities. I appreciate that we cannot introduce retrospective legislation, or retrofit legislation, and a builder such as Murphys in my constituency will say that it is perfectly happy and comfortable with the requirements for extensions and new build, but is there not a danger that we could end up with a two-tier system where older converted properties are energy-inefficient and the modern ones are efficient?"

Bearing in mind your rigid strictures, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will not give the warm words of praise to that eager partnership that I would have given otherwise. My hon. Friend's new clause 1 is permissive: he is saying what a local authority may do, not what it shall do, which is implicit in the Bill as drafted. House prices are falling. If one talks to builders such as Mr. Dempsey in my constituency, to whom I talked last week, they will say that in a falling house market, margins are shaved.

I have mentioned former local government planning officers, who seem to work as consultants nowadays. Many of them will be as busy as Jimmy Bullard, as we say in west London, trying to find their way around words such as "reasonable" and around the permissive nature of "may".

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point, which is relevant to home information packs, although I do not wish to rehash the whole argument that we had on those. His point chimes with mine, in that, by and large, we tend to seek examples of good practice that have commercial benefit. I remember visiting a property in a place called Hangeland, in Norway, where they use a commercially driven system of heat insulation, not just because that is environmentally correct, but because it is an advantage to do so in that part of the world.

There is no point whatever in having energy-efficient homes if people do not want to live in them or if they cost too much. Prefabs are very popular; Baird Avenue in my constituency was built before the war and it is very popular.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it matters not whether a person is called Konchesky or Stalteri, and that what matters is the home that they need, not their origins?

The hon. Gentleman is to be congratulated on the way in which he has promoted the Bill. He has not used some of the more flashy and apocalyptic images. He has been more of a Barrington than a Dexter, more of a Gooch than a Gower and more of an Erik Nevland than a Diomansy Kamara. His taut, sparse, precise, elegant Bill has been all the better for that.

Thanks to John-Paul Flaherty for bringing Pound's efforts to our attention.

KNOWLEDGE ARCHIVE

"After noticing that the German side who won the European Under-21 Championships last weekend had four full internationals in their number," wrote Oliver White in 2009, "I was wondering which U21 champions had provided the most full caps for their country. Any ideas?"

Of the German side that beat England in Malmo last Monday Mesut Ozil, Andreas Beck, Gonzalo Castro and the goalkeeper Manuel Neuer had all made appearances for the full side, and given time there's no reason why more can't join that number. In fact, the 2009 winners have already outstripped their Dutch counterparts from 2007, from whom only three players who played in the final win over Serbia have now played for the senior Netherlands side (though, obviously, they've still got plenty of time to add to that number).

In terms of sheer numbers, the Spain side that won the 1986 tournament come out on top. Back then the final was played over two legs and of the 17 players that took to the field against an Italian side that featured Walter Zenga, Gianluca Vialli and Roberto Mancini among their number, 14 went on to win full honours.

But in terms of the percentage of players who went on to win senior caps, the Czech Republic, winners in 2002, have the upper hand. The Czechs won the title in a shoot-out against France and, of the 14 players who took the field, 13 have since won full honours. Indeed much of that Under-21 side has provided the backbone of the Czech side at Euro 2004 and Euro 2008, as well as the 2006 World Cup. Only Michael Pospisil has missed out.

Contrastingly, Italy have the worst record in this regard. Fourteen players played in the two legs against Sweden in 1992 but just four of their number have made appearances for the Azzurri, while only five of the 11 to take the field in 1996 did likewise. It's only fair to point out, though, that those five were Christian Panucci, Alessandro Nesta, Fabio Cannavaro, Francesco Totti and renowned philanthropist Damiano Tommasi. Not a bad haul from one youth team.

1978 Yugoslavia 13 out of 15 (over two legs): Stojanovic, Vujkov, Zajec, Stojkovic, Bogdan, Krmpotic, Bosnjak, Halilhodzic, Klincarski, Desnica, Sliskovic, Obradovic, Savic.

1980 USSR 13 out of 16 (over two legs): Tchanov, Kaplun, Baltacha, Darasselia, Susloparov, Bal, Khapsalis, Petrakov, Khachatryan (Armenia), Shengelia, Prudnikov, Novikov, Gassaev.

1982 England five out of 14 (over two legs): Thomas, Fenwick, Lee, Duxbury, Goddard.

1984 England 11 out of 17 (two legs): Bailey, Sterland, Pickering, Stevens, Bracewell, Watson, Wallace, Hateley, Hodge, Thomas, Chamberlain.

1986 Spain 14 out of 17 (two legs): Ablanedo, Solana, Sanchez Flores, Sanchis, Andrinua, Caldere, Francisco Llorente, Eusebio, Pardeza, Roberto, Olaya, Gallego, Juan Carlos, Vazquez.

1988 France 11 out of 17 (two legs): Silvestre (no, not that one), Despeyroux, Roche, Sauzee, Paille, Guerin, Cantona (yes, that one), Martini, Passi, Dogon, Blanc.

1990 USSR nine out of 14 (two legs): Kiriakov, Sidelnikov, Pozdniakov, Kanchelskis, Shalimov, Kobelev, Dobrovolski, Kolyvanov, Mostovoi.

1992 Italy four out of 14 (two legs): Favalli, Dino Baggio, Melli, Albertini.

1994 Italy four out of 12 (one leg): Toldo, Cannavaro, Panucci, Inzaghi.

1996 Italy five out of 11: Panucci, Nesta, Cannavaro, Tommasi, Totti.

1998 Spain four out of 11: Salgado, Garcia Calvo, Ito, Guti.

2000 Italy six out of 13: Abbiati, Grandoni, Ferrari, Gattuso, Baronio, Pirlo.

2002 Czech Republic 13 out of 14: Cech, Jiranek, Kovac, Vorisek, Grygera, Zelenka, Polak, Baros, Vachousek, Pitak, Rozehnal, Hubschman, Skacel.

2004 Italy nine out of 14: Amelia, Bonera, Zaccardo, De Rossi, Palombo, Gilardino, Barzagli, Brighi, Mesto.

2006 Holland seven out of 13: Vlaar, Emanuelson, De Zeeuw, Schaars, Hofs, Huntelaar, Castelen.

2007 Holland three out of 14: Maduro, Drenthe, Babel.

[Archive addendum: you can now add Benedikt Höwedes, Jérôme Boateng, Sebastian Boenisch (albeit for Poland), Mats Hummels, Sami Khedira, Dennis Aogo and Marcel Schmelzer to those of the winning German side in 2009 to go on to play for the full national side – an impressive 11 from 14, second only to the 2002 Czechs. And also Erik Pieters, Roy Beerens and Otman Bakkal from the Dutch side of 2007 have gone on to play for the full side since the article was originally published.]

For thousands more questions and answers take a trip through the Knowledge archive

CAN YOU HELP?

"With Rio Ferdinand having played his last two games at Wembley for Manchester United against Barcelona and then for England on Saturday against Switzerland, his next competitive game will likely be against Manchester City at Wembley again," notes Conan Jal. "What is the most consecutive Wembley appearances a player has made without playing at another ground in between?"

"Has any player ever played for more teams whose name begin with the same letter than Kaba Diawara?" muses Dudley Armitage. "At the last count Kaba, who currently plays for Arles-Avignon, has also played for Arsenal, Al-Gharrafa, Al-Kharitiyath, Ajaccio, Ankaragucu, and Alki Larnaca. That's seven by my reckoning. Surely no one can beat that?"

Send your questions and answers to knowledge@guardian.co.uk

John Ashdownguardian.co.uk

Nolan set to complete West Ham move

• 28-year-old undergoing medical at West Ham
• Joey Barton reacts angrily to news via Twitter

The Newcastle United captain Kevin Nolan is undergoing a medical at West Ham ahead of completing a move to the Championship club.

West Ham targeted Newcastle's top scorer from last season after he rejected a new contract at St James' Park. Newcastle dismissed an initial bid for the 28-year-old as "derisory", but accepted a subsequent offer.

Nolan, who has two years remaining on his Newcastle contract, will be reunited with the former Bolton manager Sam Allardyce at Upton Park if the deal goes through.

Nolan arrived on Tyneside in a £4m move from Bolton in January 2009, and was a key figure in Newcastle's recovery from relegation from the Premier League at the end of the 2008-09 season.

He scored 18 times in the club's Championship promotion campaign, and a further 12 last season – the first time he has made double figures in the Premier League.

However, talks over a new contract stalled over the length of the deal, and Newcastle appear to have decided to sell him now rather than lose him on a free transfer in two years.

With Joey Barton having been told he will not be offered a new contract and José Enrique failing to respond to his latest offer, the Newcastle manager Alan Pardew could yet lose all three of the players he had hoped to tie down before starting his recruitment work in earnest.

Barton reacted angrily to the news via Twitter, suggesting that he, Enrique and Jonás Gutiérrez would be next to go: "Great player, leader, captain, person, trainer and mostly a friend for life. Devastated to see him SOLD! #mejoseandjonasnext."

The news will also not go down well with fans who thought the summer would be spent adding to a relatively settled squad.

Newcastle UnitedWest Ham UnitedTransfer windowguardian.co.uk

Women’s football – pure joy (and much less diving) | Anna Clark

Ignore the wink wink headlines, the women's World Cup promises real excitement from truly great players such as Marta

In just over a week, the women's World Cup opens in Germany with 16 fierce national teams competing for the sport's most prestigious prize. The lead story in international media? Five members of the German team posed for Playboy. "What better way to promote the women's World Cup than for your national side to show off their new strip?" winks the Daily Mail. What better way indeed.

In the 20th anniversary year of the tournament, media coverage of the women's World Cup is patchy – except when it involves Playboy or how the jerseys Nike made for the US team "create a uniquely feminine silhouette" (really, can you imagine Nike promoting men's jerseys for their "uniquely masculine silhouette"?).

Elsewhere, the headlines on women's football are awfully grim: the pro league in the US is fighting for its life; Chelsea Ladies could only bear funding cuts when the men's team made personal donations; Brazil's legendary Marta will never be taken as seriously as her male counterparts; and Fifa's ban on headscarves (and Iran's inflexible dress code) disqualifies the Iranian women's team from international competition. The FA is shutting down 20 "centres for excellence" where young female footballers train. Women playing in Afghanistan risk death threats.

It's downright depressing. From the headlines (or dearth of them), you'd think there was no joy in the beautiful game if it happens to be women on the field. Which is a shame. Also, it's wrong. You want to know why athletes play hard, even in desperate and dangerous circumstances, even when they're hardly rewarded with prestige and money like men are? It's for the joy. Love of the game. And that spirit comes out in smart, hard-nosed play that lures in fans like me (also: far, far less diving than in men's tournaments). I'll be watching the women's World Cup this year because it is, simply, fun.

Germany has embraced the tournament and ticket sales are soaring. Opening day finds Germany and Canada playing before more than 72,000 in Berlin, while France takes on Nigeria. The tournament pits dominant, but aging, teams against hungry younger ones. Germany is trying for a third straight title, led by striker Birgit Prinz, the cup's all-time leading scorer. The top-ranked US team is fielding stars such as striker Abby Wambach and keeper Hope Solo, but looked ragged in recent matches: they were last to qualify. England's team brings together 16 top performers from the Women's Super League: coach Hope Powell believes this is the strongest England team she has ever had.

Meanwhile, Equatorial Guinea powered its way to the tournament against formidable odds, and critics claiming their success must be because they are actually men playing as women. Brazil is led by one-name wonders such as Marta (Women's World Player of the Year five years running) and Cristiane, who scored 8 goals in the South American championship. While Brazil lost the 2007 World Cup final, Marta still came away as MVP. The 25-year-old, who plays for the Western New York Flash, is undoubtedly one of the best players in the world. Also worth watching this year: Colombia's 17-year-old talent Yoreli Rincon, Australia's popular and energetic squad (average age: 22), and the under-rated Norwegian team, which gave away only two goals in eight qualifying matches.

The tournament brims with excitement. Still, for many people, fans of women's football are nothing less than unfathomable. We may as well be unicorns: they don't believe we exist. On a rare ESPN story about the women's World Cup, comments are riddled with derisive pleas. "Please do not cover women's soccer," writes one commenter. Another: "Does anyone actually care? it's women's soccer …"

These people seem to believe that if they themselves are not interested in women's football, then no one is, or ever will be. Their self-satisfied presumption is staggering.

And this leads to a sorry conundrum: when those of us who are excited about women's football are forced to defend its existence again and again, we never get around to the actual conversations that sports fans feed upon: talk of injuries and recoveries, strategy and skill, villains and heroes, the close calls and the glory.

It is stories, after all, that fundamentally make sports culture thrive. The men's World Cup started 61 years before the women's tournament; it's had generations to build its story. The narrative of the women's World Cup is still unfolding. We're at the beginning. Who knows what's going to happen? I don't know, but I want to be there when it does.

• This article was commissioned after a suggestion in our You tell us thread.

Women's footballWomen's World Cup 2011Anna Clarkguardian.co.uk

Should Arsenal let Cesc Fábregas go this time?

Is it time for Arsenal to let their captain return to the club of his youth?

Paul Wilson on Villa’s manager hunt

Despite Big Eck's credentials, one still feels this is another PR calamity waiting to happen, or perhaps already has happened

Never mind the ethics of Aston Villa admitting an interest in the suddenly available Alex McLeish, the bigger question is why a club that was knocking on the door of the top four a couple of years ago and has been providing several players for England all season is now setting its sights so low.

No disrespect to McLeish, who seems to be a fairly capable if rarely inspiring sort of manager, but relegation is not normally a passport to higher things. Not immediately anyway, and certainly not when the move is across the same city to your fiercest rivals.

If Villa had wanted to make an uncomplicated appointment by simply finding a manager who was available, they had their choice from Mark Hughes and Steve McClaren. Rafa Benítez may have turned them down, but had they moved quickly enough they could have had the Dudley-born Sam Allardyce, and while bringing in Big Sam would presumably have attracted the same sort of terrace grumbling that his appointment provoked at West Ham, Villa fans could not have known that a month or so later they would be contemplating Big Eck.

Had Villa wanted to approach a manager currently in employment they could have asked for permission to speak to Roy Hodgson, Owen Coyle or Mick McCarthy, all managers who either kept their clubs up on limited resources or performed quick results turnarounds. Instead they opted to try for David Moyes, which was understandable but unlikely, and then Roberto Martínez, which was slightly puzzling in view of the season Wigan have just had. Another goal here or there on the final day of the season and Martínez would have been in McLeish's position, relegated without even the Carling Cup as consolation. Martínez talks a good game and ticks every box as a young, ambitious manager with a clear view of how he wants the game to be played, but Wigan spent most of the season in the bottom three. Until that vital win at Stoke on the last day, Martínez had never seen his side record back-to-back league victories in two seasons as the Wigan manager.

So even had Martínez said yes to Villa – and few in the north-west really expected him to step outside the comfort zone of his two-man mutual admiration society with Dave Whelan – it would still have been a strange appointment for a side wanting to be in the top half of the table and then some. Stranger than McClaren, who would have had to win over hostile fans but at least has a track record of actual achievement in two different countries. And much stranger than Hughes, who seemed a perfect fit for a club of Villa's status until it became clear that together with his high-powered agent he would always be on the lookout for a higher station.

But then again, what exactly is Villa's status at the moment? They never quite looked convincing top four material even at the absolute height of Martin O'Neill's time in charge, and fell away quite drastically last season to the point where they had to pay over the odds for Darren Bent to score the goals that kept them up. They are now in the process of selling their best players, with Stewart Downing expected to follow Ashley Young out of the club, so most of O'Neill's good work is being undone and it does not sound as if the new manager will be handed a massive transfer budget with which to source replacements. True, there are some good young players and prospects at the club, such as Nathan Delfouneso and Marc Albrighton, but the lesson of the season just ended is that experienced professionals are required to form the core of a Premier League team, and Villa have just parted with the still reliable Brad Friedel and cannot expect too much more from grizzled veterans such as Richard Dunne and Emile Heskey.

All things considered, it is quite a mess, and one can see why managers established at other clubs are not leaping over themselves to put their names forward. Villa may have a splendid stadium and a huge fanbase, but in a real sense such things complicate the situation these days for what would once have been referred to a respectable, mid-table side. There is no such thing as mid-table respectability any more unless you are a club like Bolton, Stoke, Fulham or Blackburn, confidently punching above your weight and gaining your end-of-season satisfaction from staying well clear of the relegation zone and maybe the odd cup run or Wembley appearance. Clubs below that level, such as Wolves, Wigan and whoever happens to be promoted, generally know they will be in for a relegation scrap most seasons. For clubs above that level – Everton, Villa, Spurs and these days even Liverpool – the only thing to aim for is fourth place and the Champions League. Clearly not all of them can make it – most seasons none of them will make it – but the choice is a stark one between coasting in mid-table and risking fans being turned off by lack of ambition, or going all out for Champions League status without worrying about failure or financial consequence.

Villa are victims of this process as much as the risky appointment of Gérard Houllier as manager, which in turn was brought on by O'Neill walking out just days before the start of last season. If O'Neill's grievance was about good players being sold with insufficient funds for replacements, the situation does not appear to have altered much in 12 months. The underlying cause is that Villa will never be able to keep hold of their best players, or attract the top tier of new ones, until they establish themselves as a Champions League force, or at least send out a convincing signal that they are about to give it a good try. That's what Spurs did, but even then it only worked for a season. That's the danger, particularly when you have Manchester City and their money to factor into the equation. But at least Spurs gave it a good go, delighted their fans for a season, and are in a slightly better position than they were to repeat the exercise in the near future.

Everton made the top four once, only to fall at the first hurdle in Europe due to an unfavourable qualifying round draw that pitted them against the eventual semi-finalists in Villarreal, and are too skint these days to entertain realistic hopes of finishing above City, Liverpool and Tottenham. Everyone knows that, and everyone has a degree of admiration for the competitive sides Moyes turns out on a limited budget. That, sadly, is all Everton fans have to look forward to now. Moyes seems to have decided there was not that much to choose between his present club's position and Villa's. If you are serious about mounting a top four challenge you only have to look at Liverpool's recent spending to see what is required. Admittedly you ought not to need quite so many midfielders, but Liverpool are making a clear statement under Kenny Dalglish that they want their old status back and they have owners willing and able to back that ambition.

Can Villa say the same thing? No. Villa are not making any clear statements at all at the moment. It can be surmised from their pursuit of Martínez and now McLeish that they have lowered their expectations and are resigned to toughing it out in mid-table or below for the next few seasons, but even if belt-tightening has become necessary it would still have been more logical to appoint a survival expert rather than a manager just relegated. McLeish is not a bad manager, only Liverpool and Everton seperated his newly-promoted Birmingham side from O'Neill's Villa the season before last, and if appointed he will probably stick around and give the club good service. Yet one still feels this is another PR calamity waiting to happen, perhaps already has happened. The Scot's solid credentials may simply not survive the chaos surrounding Villa's selection process.

Aston VillaAlex McLeishBirmingham CityPaul Wilsonguardian.co.uk

Cardiff approach for Mackay rejected

• Watford to do 'everything in our power' to keep manager
• Cardiff turned to Mackay after Alan Shearer talks broke down

Watford have rejected an official approach from fellow Championship side Cardiff City for their manager Malky Mackay.

Cardiff, still seeking to replace Dave Jones after talks with the former England striker Alan Shearer broke down on Tuesday, turned to the 39-year-old Scot who has impressed in two seasons at Watford.

However, a statement from Watford said the approach for Mackay had been rebuffed.

The Watford owner, Laurence Bassini, told the club's website: "We don't want Malky to leave Watford and we will do everything in our power to keep him at Vicarage Road."

Chris Hughton and Roberto Di Matteo have been linked with the Cardiff role but are also thought to be on the shortlist for the Birmingham job.

Cardiff CityWatfordguardian.co.uk